The trio of Bisi Adewumi, Bankole Taiwo and Hope Matthew of Nigerian NewsDirect were recently at the expansive office of the Chief Judge of Ogun State, Justice Mosunmola Dipeolu, at Judiciary Complex, Kobape Road, Abeokuta for a comprehensive interview. The Amazon of a judge bared her mind on so many issues revolving around administration of justice in Nigeria, the imperatives of judicial autonomy, the reluctance of Governors in signing death warrants, her modest achievements in the last four years among others. Excerpts:
Let’s look at Ogun State judiciary under the watch of My Lord, could you please tell us the journey so far ?
I was appointed as the Chief Judge of Ogun State on 22nd of October, 2018. We started at the
old court complex at Isabo, Abeokuta, where we are now, I mean the new Judiciary Complex, Kobape Road, Abeokuta was still under construction but by May 2019, President Muhammadu Buhari commissioned four blocks out of seven blocks that we have at this new complex. By the grace of God, we moved here in September 2019 with five courts, the management team and registry. To God be the glory, as we speak everything is completed. The canteen is now running, we have nine courts operating in full swing, we have two other vacant courts to be filled by judges to be appointed by January, they should start sitting by January by God’s grace. Aside this, there is this Customary Court of Appeal law of 2011, it was just a law without the establishment of this court, with the support of God, the court took off in January 2020 with a President and three Judges. As at today, since I became the Chief Judge, I have appointed 11 judges both for the High Court and Customary Court of Appeal and we have eight to be sworn-in in January by the special grace of God taking the number to 19 that have so far been appointed since I assumed office. There is also an ongoing exercise to fill the vacancy in Customary Court of Appeal, when that is concluded, we would have had 20 judges appointed so far. Though, it has not been easy but with the support of the management team led by the number two Judge of the State, Hon. Justice Mabekoje, we have been able to forge ahead.
Further more, the Ayetoro jurisdiction was no longer in operation when I became the Chief Judge, God helped me to make some moves, the jurisdiction is now operating with a functional judge and befitting quarters. I also created Ifo division and we have three judges sitting there, though I am not satisfied with the kind of courts we have there but I see the need for a court to be there and God has been helping us. We have also created another Magisterial court division at Igbesa/Idi Oke which is very close to Agbara. Initially, Agbara division had been created, many years ago, but there’s still no court structure there, the court was sitting at Ota. People would have to come from Agbara, Idi Oke, Igbesa to Ota to attend to their cases. It could take them four, five hours with the traffic to come around to attend to their cases and sometimes by the time they get to Ota, their cases might have been adjourned because they were still not in court when their cases were called.
Since we came on board, we have had assistance from some community leaders. For instance, the Kabiyesi, that is, the traditional ruler of Igbesa applied for a Magistrate Court to be approved for the locality, not knowing that he is also helping the judiciary, and this I happily approved. The Kabiyesi built and furnished the court room with quarters for the magistrate too and this was commissioned sometimes in 2020. During the commissioning, the traditional ruler also promised to build the High Court and the following year the project was commissioned. That was how we now have Igbesa/Idi Oke Division serving Agbara and its environs. The Court II of this jurisdiction is now under construction.
When I came on board, we also needed to appoint many Magisterates and Chief Magistrates, because, there were many family cases that only Chief Magisterates could handle. We had one family court at Abeokuta, I can’t remember if we have any at Ota but as I speak, we now have a Family Court at Owode, Sagamu, Ijebu Ode, Ilaro. We have at least appointed 12 Chief Magisterates and other Magisterates to man these courts.
Additionally, on the issue of Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR), when I came on board, we had two Multidoor Court houses at Ota and Ijebu Ode. But as we speak, we now have five Multidoor Court houses, and by the special grace of God, Ogun State is the only one that could boast of this number throughout the federation. These courts were donated by some members of the community and philanthropists. For instance, the one at Ota was donated by a serving judge and her husband, a Senior Advocate of Nigeria, Chief and Hon Justice Akinbiyi among others.
When we got here, we also noticed that there was a problem of archiving. While moving here,we discovered a store where old record books were dumped and these are not useless records, somebody can come around to demand for judgement of a case heard, say in the 70s, he may say he wants the proceedings. We have by the grace of God moved these records to a very safe archive. We have also successfully scanned these documents and stored them in the cloud. Especially with what happened in Lagos State during the EndSARS disaster, when Igbosere Court was burnt, leading to loss of many documents, that can’t happen here in Ogun State because of this technology that we have employed. We have assigned officers to man the place. The archive section is a newly created office with officers who help to scan these records and store them. So, it is easy now for people from any part of the world to access these recordings. All you have to do is to send in your application through email or Whatsapp and you will be told how much to pay online and you will have the proceedings. Technology has made it that simple. We have also created the e-filing and e-registry, these are part of the take away from COVID-19. This pandemic, with all the challenges also brought with it some good. It was during this period that we went digital. Some of us were involved in virtual hearing of cases. If you have a case, you can sit with your lawyer in the comfort of your house, the judge will be here and the case would be heard. This has helped to solve the problem of five, six hours spent in Lagos, Abeokuta traffic that will make many to miss their cases after which such cases will be adjourned.
We have gone a step higher with e-filing. We have been trying to sell these to our lawyers. We have had a workshop on this and the lawyers had demanded that we should organise training for them so that everyone could be abreast of this technology, and of course flow with it. We have also created Magisterial District at Itori, Wasimi, Imeko, Iperu, Igbesa/Idi Oke among others.
Then, we also now have correctional centres court. Correctional centres are what we formerly called prisons. These correctional centres usually have the challenge of moving down the inmates to court due to lack of fuel, vehicle, personnel and the rest. Sometimes, the court might have to adjourn for another day because of these challenges. A judge once told me how he had to stand down a matter and dipped hand into his pocket and provided the money to go bring an inmate, because the case had suffered so much adjournment, but he wanted to get the case disposed off. Now we have some Magistrates sitting at these courts inside the correctional centres or located very close to them. We have one at Oba Correctional Centre taking cases from Owode, Ifo, Itori, Wasinmi, Abeokuta among others. We also have one at Ilaro, Sagamu and Ijebu Ode. It is to combat the problem of delayed justice which often leads to congestion of these correctional centres.
There is this initiative we have also introduced called ‘Small Claims Court’. This court entertains cases where the money involved is not more than N5 million. You don’t even need a lawyer in this court. If you say you are not owing N5 million but N4 million. You have agreed that you are owing N4 million. Then, pay the N4 million while we sort out the issue of other N1 million. It doesn’t take long, it is for quick dispensation of justice. We have this court at Abeokuta, Ota, Ifo, Ijebu Ode, Sagamu and Ilaro. It was established in 2020.
We have also translated some of our laws to Yoruba, Egun and Pidgin English. These include: Administration of Criminal Justice Law, Child Right Act and so on. Before coming on board, I have had the experience of incompetent staff still getting promoted. So, when I assumed office, I introduced computer based exam, and once you don’t pass, you don’t get promoted as well. Those to be employed too must take computer based exam, because the world has gone digital, so you have to be computer literate. Even after employment, before you are confirmed, you must take the computer based exam and pass. This step has really helped us to improve on the quality of our staff. Initially, there were some hues and cries when it was introduced, but I said once you are able to use your phone, you should not have any problem with a computer. This made us to establish a staff development centre with over 50 computer systems, and with this centre, many of our staff have received computer training. Just last week, we did graduation for 49 of them. The training runs on weekends and it is also subsidised to ensure that the staff could afford it. Other courses taken at the training centres are use of english, court administration and other segments of computer. We have basic, intermediate and advanced courses. Thank God, people are taking advantage of this training school.
We also have Quarterly Jail Delivery Exercise where we look at those that had been in custody for long and their cases are not going on regularly. The essence is to check what is wrong and then know what we can do to enhance quick dispensation of justice.
The welfare of our staff is always at heart, they get their promotion as at when due. Of the arms of the government in the state, they are the only in this category.
We have also established clinics in other judicial divisions like Ota, Ijebu Ode, Sagamu. We have the doctors and nurses on ground. We equally have a medical laboratory. It is only serious health issues that could make our staff to go to other hospitals.
During Christmas, we extend our hands of love to our staff. During the COVID-19 pandemic, we reached out to them as well.
There is this issue of charge and bail that we have regularised. You know these are people who want to stand surety for an accused, and sometimes, the surety and the accused will disappear. To find a way round this challenge, we set a condition such that if you want to be involved in this charge and bail, you must register with us. We said such people must register a company which they will then register with us. We told them of how much must be in their bank account, and other conditions that they must meet. We call them Licensed Bondsmen Board, and with this, things have got better. There is this issue of young lawyers on contract that were attached to the judges to help with research. By the special grace of God, when I came on board I ensured that these people were absolved into the mainstream.
We also carried out extensive renovation of our various court rooms from time to time. We have e-library too at Abeokuta, Ota and Ijebu Ode. We also have comprehensive medical check up for our magistrates and judicial research officers and there is health insurance scheme for our judges.
A lot has been said about judicial autonomy, what do we stand to gain from it?
We stand to gain a lot because as it is now, for whatever we want to do we have to take the approval from His Excellency, the Governor. Let say we want to do a project on archiving, we have to write His Excellency saying we want to do this project, this is how much it will cost, we can draw the fund from this budget head and all that. If the Governor believes in the project, he may approve the budget, but if not, he may not. And then, it depends on if there is money. Sometimes, you will get the approval and there will be no cash backing. In that situation, that means the project won’t take off.
For instance, since I came on board, I have seen that we need staff quarters in each of our judicial divisions, because they get posted from time to time and you see most of them traveling to work everyday because they cannot afford to keep two homes, they can’t afford to pay rents in Abeokuta where they live and pay another one in Sagamu where they work. So, they have to wait on the road for one good Samaritan to pick them. Travelling daily is not even good for their health, so I felt that building an hostel like accommodation for them won’t even cost so much. All they need to sleep is one room, kitchen and bathroom. How much will it cost to build something like this. If I had enjoyed autonomy, I don’t need to be waiting for approval from any quarters, I would have started this project long time ago. So, with autonomy you can plan on your resources and make judicious use of it as at when due.
My Lord, it has been observed that the Governors are not signing the death warrants and some are of the opinion that this is encouraging others to take to crime. What is your reaction to this sir. Why are Governors not signing?
Why are the Governors not signing these death warrants? Well, it is only the Governors that could explain the reason o (laughs). I have been in front of a Governor who said I cannot create life, so I won’t take what I can never create.
(cuts in) Are we not encouraging criminality with such disposition? someone can say, I will go ahead and commit murder because he knows that he won’t be killed in return if he was eventually found guilty, he could only be kept in the prison, what do you have to say My Lord?
I have a radical view on all of this. You see, when you occupy a position without orientation, you may not know the extent of your powers and duties, and so you fall short of expectations. I don’t agree with Governors not signing death warrants. Why? Because it is part of their duty as Governors. It is like a judge saying I am a pastor, I cannot give life, I cannot take life so I will not sentence to death whoever is guilty of such maximum punishment. Then,you don’t have business being a judge.
Now, we have a lot of people who have been sentenced to death across our prisons, which we now call correctional centres, being kept alive on tax payers money, it is not as if they are being fed well anyway, the correctional centres are seriously congested. It is not a place the government is interested in. I am saying this boldly. Once you get to these prisons, either you are guilty or not you will begin to suffer. I am not saying people should go there to enjoy, but they should live like human beings. Our inmates are not living like human beings, that is the truth. If they have been sentenced to death, why keeping them there.this is part of the major reasons why we are not having the effect that these death sentences should have. I said this why we are treating the sentencing of these Yahoo boys (internet fraudsters) . I said this is just like the armed robbery cases, you keep sentencing them and they keep multiplying, they keep committing this offence. It has not deterred them in any way. Likewise, these Yahoo boys, I don’t see them being deterred by the imprisonment, they go there (prison) to converge and sort of turning the place to school where they get more advanced in their nefarious acts of obtaining money by false pretenses and then become more specialised while they are in the prisons.
How do you explain the case of conflicting court judgements, is this out of sharp practices or what My Lord?
Case of conflicting judgement is not out of sharp practices but because we see things differently. Our personalities too are very different. Some are very strict and some could be sentimental. Some are detached from the work that they do. You’re not suppose to be judgemental but you can’t help yourself. Let me give you an example of this EFCC cases. You see, they bring them, young boys of 17, 18, 20-27, and you ask them what do you do? They would say I am a 300 level university student studying this, I am in my final year writing exam, I am a youth corper, and the likes. As a mother, as a father, you will definitely feel something. Though, some would say, yes they have committed the offence, let them go to prison. But another might say let’s give them another chance. I won’t send you to prison, I will send you on community service, so cut the surrounding of the court or go to the hospital and help with the cleaning for these number of days, or even your department or VC’s office, go and do the cleaning there for six months so that everyone will know that you have committed an offence. So, would you say that the judge that sentenced on community service have been compromised? No, so it depends on the circumstances. Punishment can never be the same, except you have held a meeting or a situation whereby the law specifically says that this is the punishment such that the judge can never use his discretion, that is when you can have same judgement. For instance, if the law says punishment must not be more than seven years, I can sentence to six months and another judge can sentence to three years for same offence.
What is your take on abolishment of death sentences?
Well, I never thought of it, but I will rather canvass for death sentences as punishment for more offences if only it will be carried out. It is not good if the death sentences will only stop at pronouncement and the Governors won’t give their approval for execution. There are so many people on the death row, it is not good.
You are a wife, a mother, and I begin to wonder how you combine all of these with the tasking schedule of a Chief Judge, can My Lord tell us how you juggle all these critical roles?
Well, by the time one assumes this office, your children must have grown up, what you will have are grandchildren, so there is no challenge as far as that area is concerned and you know women are naturally gifted in planning and multitasking. It is what I have observed that men generally don’t have. With due respect to the men, a woman can be cooking in the kitchen and still be giving instructions on other things. In all, God has been my strength.
How best do you think we can make judiciary perform optimally?
The most important thing that come to my mind is full independence of the judiciary. I am not talking of financial autonomy, but full independence of the judiciary. To some extent, we are lucky in Ogun State. Before I came on board, to employ a driver, you must write to seek for approval from the Governor. Oh, we have just appointed eight judges and we have to employ drivers for them, if it takes one year for the Governor to give his approval, then the judges will have to make arrangement for how to pay the drivers themselves. But since this government came on board, I have the power to employ within our budget without going around with letters seeking for approval to employ drivers or cleaners. A lot of states still have to be begging around before the Chief Judge can employ even cleaners or drivers. That’s why I am saying full independence of the judiciary is what we need. If we can employ within our budget, we won’t have to be looking for approval here and there. With our financial autonomy, we shall be able to pay our staff salaries from Magistrates down, pension and gratuities of judges. It is a very sad thing that judges will retire and for years they won’t be paid their gratuities. Don’t forget that while in service, the judges can’t do any other business aside farming. And now, we have issues with farming, the challenge of insecurity, nobody wants to be a victim of these terrible bandits. And when we retire we cannot practice. What job do you want to do at 65 and the job we do as judges are very tasking health wise. And a year after you become a judge you begin to have all sorts of health issues because of the tedious nature of the job, you start having back pain, neck pain, hand pain and the rest and now you retire, you don’t have your gratuities, that is very sad. Those who come in to spend four or eight years will get paid millions as severance allowance, vehicles are changed every three, three years, you have houses in Abuja and any other place of your choice. And here are judges who have served for 30 years, over 20 years and all that, what they are left with is to go back home and be looking at the ceiling.
Will My Lord love to travel this road again if given the opportunity, talking about the profession?
Well, it’s been a very fulfilling career, and I want to thank the Lord for being so faithful. I have enjoyed the route I chose, to God alone be the glory.
How do you unwind ma?
I love travelling, I love being with my grandchildren, I love people around me and I love listening to gospel music too. I love coaching the youths too. I want a better future for them, so I love talking to them.
What will you consider as the challenges of this seat?
We see things from different perspectives and likewise our approaches to issues are quite different. Like I said, God has been very faithful, I have no complaint. What we call challenges are expected, for instance, you don’t expect everyone to like you, you don’t expect everyone to cooperate with you, but once you have the majority and God is by your side, the job is done. Like I said, God has not allowed anything to shake me on this seat.
As the general elections approach, what advice do you offer Nigerians?
And for the forthcoming elections, let’s just vote wisely. Let’s follow our minds.