Honourable Godfrey Ali Gaiya is a two-term member of the House of Representatives between 2007 and 2015. He was the Chairman, House Committee on Sports between 2011 and 2015. The PDP chieftain from Kaduna State is currently a special adviser on Foreign Affairs and Diplomacy to the current Deputy Speaker, House of Representatives, Ahmed Idris Wase. The former federal lawmaker in this interview with our correspondent TAOFEEK LAWAL speaks on national issues bothering on the state of insecurity in the country, the gale of defections in the PDP and the hardship Nigerians are passing through under APC government. Excerpts:
There have been gales of defections in the PDP in recent times. Last year, one of your governors, David Umahi, moved to the All Progressives Congress (APC) and just last month, former Ogun State governor, Gbenga Daniel, also left the PDP. These are the big fishes that we know and they moved with their supporters en masse. What is happening in PDP, what is your party turning into?
To start with, the PDP provided a very good platform for Nigerians to come together under one umbrella. From 1999 under the leadership of former President Olusegun Obasanjo to President Goodluck Jonathan in 2015, our party did everything to reengineer Nigeria. The PDP government brought a lot of technological advancement and physical infrastructural development to Nigeria. We set the agenda to making democracy the only viable from of governance. We restored the confidence of Nigerians in the fact that the government of the people, by the people and for the people which is democracy, is better than any other form of government. We also had to remove the psyche of the average Nigerian into the loss of command and as soon as possible or with immediate effect.
So, it was not just a period of development but a period of reorienting the minds of Nigerians to believe that democracy is the best way of governance and to believe with the world as a global village, Nigeria needed to key in, to enjoy bigger patronage at the global level. PDP did that and you will agree with me that during those 16 years, we brought complete tranquility and peace to the polity of this country. Nigeria was at peace with itself, governance was going smoothly and the governors were up and doing in ensuring that their number one duty was to guarantee lives and property of the citizens.
Unfortunately, Nigerians being what we are and despite the good works of the PDP up till 2015 felt that PDP has gotten too much of its fair share in governance and their attack against the PDP was not because our party failed, it was because the people or the mind of an average Nigerian yearned for change. And you know they say the most constant thing in life is change. You will also never appreciate the change until you witness another dispensation. When it came in 2015, it was like the PDP has not done well and Nigerians believed there could have been a better alternative to PDP to also experiment. But I can assure you that from 2015 to today, Nigerians know better.
Of course, decamping to an average Nigerian politician is not a new thing. Nigerian politicians who are never really called by the people believe that a platform is just an avenue to be in power. So if leaving a good and a performing party will give you an opportunity in a new platform to get you that power, so be it. And unfortunately because our democracy is still nascent, we really do not believe in ideologies. We really do not believe that there are manifestos peculiar and particular to a particular party. What we do know here is that whatever party that gives you capacity or chance to get the seat you want, so be it. If you think that this party is too competitive and you think you cannot excel, you go to another one. In fact, some will form their own parties. We have not gotten to where party politics is ideological-based to the center that is why you see people moving from the PDP to a lesser party or one that can give them a warship that PDP cannot give and that is basically the reason.
Some people out of inept ambition believe that PDP being a much organised party may not give them that kind of platter to just do what they want and they can always move out because they think they cannot compete in a very organised and a big umbrella like the PDP. So, it is expected that Umahi will decamp because his ambition is well known and looking at the arrangement in the PDP, he already knew that the 2023 permutation may not favour him. And that is why a person like my boss, Gbenga Daniel (I was his coordinator for PDP national chairmanship), can leave the PDP. They had a local disagreement in Ogun State and as a nationalist instead of him (Daniel) to stay and put his house in order; he believed it was time for him to change ground. At the end of the day, I have seen people going to and fro so it is never surprises me. My immediate boss the former Speaker of the House of Representatives and current Governor of Sokoto State, Aminu Tambuwal, since I knew him has changed parties more than three times. He was in ANPP, he was in APC, he had been in PDP and is back to PDP; examples abound. It is not that PDP has not done well for these people but the fear is that remaining in the party may not afford them to get what they want easily following through democratic processes.
Don’t you think the consistent extension of the tenure of party executives at the zonal level is one of the major contributors to crisis in the PDP? At this point, it will not be out place to ask what the reconciliation committee—of the PDP headed by former Senate President Bukola Saraki to bring all aggrieved members of the party to round table—is doing especially as we look towards 2023?
The Bukola Saraki Committee has started very well and like I said if you have a large family, chances are that there will be misgivings within but it is not as if there is no love. Zone B may feel he is getting a better share from the centre than Zone C and when they come to the dining table, there could be bickering. But that does not mean that that the family is not under one accord or there is no love within that same family. The issue in PDP is that there are many people who have the interest of being in control or want to have a greater say in how the party is being conducted. But we have always believed that the party can only survive if you follow our constitution and guidelines. So where there is conflict between the constitution, the party and the guidelines, vis a vis the interest of the individuals. We know certainly there could be squabbles. But thank God the Saraki Group is actually putting those issues in the proper perspective and I can assure you that before 2023, PDP will bounce back in such a manner that even Nigerians will be surprised.
Do you see your party back in power at the centre in 2023?
The PDP, as it is now, has every ingredient to go back to the centre. First, Nigerians are disenchanted and are not finding things easy. Nigerians desire that there could have been a better government than they are enjoying. So if votes are to count and if the people’s wish is to be respected, I have no fear at all that PDP is on its way to the centre, come 2023. And I can assure you we have enough time to mend fences and like what I said, the Saraki group is actually doing very well. Thank God our senior citizens, our Board of Trustees, our former Presidents on the platform of PDP are all in support of a reunited house. The intervention has shown that they still have the hearts of PDP, the mind of PDP and they desire that PDP comes back full force in 2023. Yes there were mistakes as I said, individual interest vis a vis constitutional interest of the party but such individuals have been approached and spoken to and they have understood that doing what they are doing will not make the party any better. They are willing to sheathe their swords and toe the party lines.
The PDP at a time was the ruling party in Anambra and governorship election will be coming up in that state later in the year. What effort is your party putting together to regain the control of the state and to regain the lost confidence of the people in PDP?
The issue of Anambra is a bit dicey. At the advent of the Fourth Republic in 1999, Anambra was an APGA-controlled state. It was so controlled because they had a father-figure in the person of the late Odumegwu Ojukwu who on his own name would sway votes for any political party. Unfortunately then he chose then to be identified with APGA and since we have had series of APGA governors until a point that Peter Obi decamped to PDP. But we cannot compare the influence of APGA now like it was then. The problem of PDP in Anambra has always been internal wrangling within the key actors. They have always not been willing to agree rather they always disagree to agree and at the end our electoral fortunes have always suffered. But since we are on the track of reconciliation, we have seen that bickering has not given us anything but electoral loss. They have learnt their lessons and I am sure come 2023 or the next election, Anambra will have been able to put its house in order and speak with one voice and win the governorship seat that has long eluded the PDP.
Recently, there have been disagreements among governors and leaders of your party. The current governor of Oyo State, Engineer Seyi Makinde, a PDP man and former Governor Ayo Fayose seem not to be on the same page on party issues. Also, Governors Samuel Ortom and Bala Muhammad of Benue and Bauchi States are attacking each other on the pages of newspapers on herdsmen and farmers, something they can amicably resolve. What is the party doing to whip these leaders into line and call them to order?
You see the position of a governor in Nigeria is very powerful. The power of a state governor is very enormous and limitless. And because of that lack of check and balance in most states, the governors have their say liberally and they are never checked. It is possible that the governor out of the spur of the moment can make a weighty statement that is contrary to the general well being of Nigeria but that is not to say that it is common only to PDP governors. It has been a trait among all the governors in Nigeria. People say things to annoy and because they feel bad about one or two persons. You can also say the same about my governor, Nasir el Rufai, because when he speaks at times, you will wonder if he is truly a Nigerian that wants peace and tranquility.
So, it is a common trait in most governors in Nigeria which is not right because we have a basic document called the constitution which should be our guide. You have the states House of Assembly that should also in a way step in and provide some level of control to the excesses of those governors but unfortunately that check and balance does not exist in most states since most of the assemblies are in the pocket of the governors and that is why they can always have their way. I am however happy that of recent, Bala Muhammad recalled his words and he said it is not true that AK-47 should be handled or allowed to be handled by the Fulani herdsmen. Whatever it is, the truth of the issue here is he has said that he did not say so, and that he has condemned the carrying of AK- 47 by Fulani herdsmen. Let’s pray that it is from the heart and that the statement will go down the line and that he will talk to those people that are so accused of holding AK- 47.
Of course between Governor Seyi Makinde and former Governor Ayodele Fayose, it is unfortunate because it is the same thing I talked earlier about those with personal interest as against the party constitution and guidelines. The truth must be said that Makinde being a serving governor of the PDP from a region (South West) and by every standard and every right if you follow our party constitution and the guideline, should be number one stakeholder from the South West. He is a leader, a serving governor and this has nothing to do with age or who has been in the party before him. The truth is that he is there now and every party budget, funding and running from the South West must pass through Makinde. He is the only person that is like a father-figure for the PDP in the entire South West zone and our constitution and guidelines are very clear about that.
It says a governor is a leader of the party at the state level and of course there is a party chairman in each state. Simply put, a serving governor is a leader of the party at the state levels same at the national level. If we have a president of the PDP extraction, he is of course the national leader of the PDP and when he leaves office, he becomes the Board of Trustees (BoT) chairman if we are to follow our party constitution. So, it will be wrong for anybody who has served out his tenure and is no longer the governor of a state in the South West to say that the man who is a serving governor is a small boy and begin to ask ‘when he came to the party.’ As I said, leadership has nothing to do with age, with ego but with the PDP guidelines and constitution. If Makinde is a governor and the only for our party in the entire South West zone, he should be accorded every privilege and every right for being a leader of the party in the zone.
The current state of insecurity in the country is alarming. There have been series of kidnappings, abductions and, sadly, killings. The abduction and recent release of the school girls in Jangebe in Zamfara State left a sour taste in the mouth. Nigerians have accused the President of being too silent in a matter that should be of national priority because the first responsibility of a government is the security of lives and property of the citizens. What does the body language of President Muhammadu Buhari mean to you at this point in time in our national life?
Honestly, every Nigerian should be worried because we have never seen such challenges in our recent history. Nigeria has become so unsafe, so unsecured and so fearful that a trip from your house to your next location is not guaranteed. It appears that there is a complete breakdown of every security apparatus in this country. People have become so vulnerable that you don’t trust anybody anymore, even your neighbours. Nigeria is at war with itself and people no longer trust one another. Nigerians now look over their shoulders because you don’t know what next will happen. The highways in Nigeria are no longer safe because you can be waylaid by armed robbers, kidnappers and abductors. We have heard series of passengers being abducted on the expressways with ransom being demanded. School boys and girls had fallen prey and Nigeria is on the cliff hanger.
This level of insecurity has put Nigeria on his knees because businesses cannot thrive where I am sure or not too sure I can get to where I am going. Businesses cannot thrive when the next person I am talking to is a suspect. We need to really sit up. Unfortunately from my own observation; Mr President is not really doing what he ought to do. Because if kidnapping has reached a level where hundreds of people are being moved from one spot to another and nobody seems to know when and how beats my imagination. We are not talking about one or two persons; we are talking about persons being taken away in their hundreds and it is not just happening once in a while, it has now become a weekly occurrence.
What we accused former President Goodluck Jonathan of was not up to this and things were not as bad as today. And that time being a new experience, people thought it was more of politicking but you can never compare that time to what is happening now. Now it is clear that we have people outside Nigeria doing and undoing and nobody seems to know what to do. It is possible the groups that are holding us to ransom may even be foreigners. So, the onus on government is for citizens to be safe in their houses and wherever they are. Government must ensure that the lives and property of the governed are secured but this is not the case anymore. It is very glaring that from 2015 till date, the security situation has worsened.
In 2015, Nigerians thought the service chiefs were not up and doing. They thought that so many things were as they were because they just came on board. I remember the late Head of State, General Sani Abacha, who said any security challenge that survives after 24 hours, government of the day has a hand in it. So, if the security problem in Nigeria can survive for years and nobody can decode it, questions must be asked. It is not my words; it is a quote from the late Head of State, a General. For Abacha to have said so and repeatedly it means any security challenge we are currently facing, certainly government hand cannot be clean.
The body language of Mr President is clear. If he feels so sad about the situation, he should be seen to be up and doing. But he has withdrawn into his cocoon as if nothing is happening, I am not taking to my people and they are not even seeing how worried I am, hear my words that I am complaining until a media adviser or analysts around you say things that are even insulting, people should be worried. Imagine a media adviser telling farmers they did not get permission from the military before going to their farms to harvest their crops. Where are we going in this country, what is happening to us? I had expected Mr President to come out strongly and boldly to decisively make pronouncements that can put these things to the end. But unfortunately, he is not there, he is hardly seen and it makes all of us think that our lives have become so cheap because we do not have a president that really does show concern and care.
You are one of the special assistants to the current Deputy Speaker of the House of Representatives, Honourable Ahmed Idris Wase. You are a PDP man and your principal is an APC man. What are your roles and what are you doing for the Deputy Speaker?
I am a special assistant on Foreign Affairs and Diplomacy. If there are issues that have to do with his office with the House and they need my input or advice, that is when I come in. And if there is a strained relationship between Nigeria and any country or if there is any need to know about a particular country that is where we provide the necessary background information so that he can take the best of decisions as it relates with the outside world.
Who is Honourable Godfrey Ali Gaiya?
Honourable Godfrey Ali Gaiya is an average Nigerian who was privileged to also serve at the national level because I represented my constituency, Jaba/Zango Federal Constituency of Kaduna State from 2007 to 2015. Since then, I have withdrawn to my cocoon but not the Bola Ige’s Siddon Look but observing things closely, but not unnecessarily getting too involved because Godfrey that you see here serving the deputy speaker that is an APC government but I am still a PDP staunch member. That actually has not affected my job but it is always good that you try to balance where you work and the party you belong. If Nigerians will emulate the template of the deputy speaker, it will go a long way to helping Nigeria. When a Nigerian is qualified to do certain things irrespective of their party affiliations, they should be allowed to serve Nigeria. Nigeria should not be governed strictly on party lines. We have qualified Nigerians, even politicians who should be called to serve their fatherland because at the end of the day, our good heads if harnessed properly, can take Nigeria to the desired position.
And like I always say, if most of us that have the opportunities to be like the deputy speaker and allow yourself to be surrounded by those you believe can make your job easier and can add quality to what you do without minding their political platform, Nigeria will be better for it. The deputy speaker has so many other non-APC members in his office and he has never in a day bothered to know what you do in your own party. He has never asked that anybody decamp to his party. He sees you as Godfrey Ali Gaiya who is qualified to advise me on this field not minding where he is from, the party he confesses to belong to, as long as he is a Nigerian.
What are we expecting from you in 2023?
Like they say, you can never hang your boots. So, in politics too, we don’t hang our flags or our symbols. We always strive to be relevant in one way or the other. If I am to listen to my people and the fact that I was in the House of Representatives for eight years, the most logical progression will be to go to the Senate. And that is the position people who think I have anything to add insist I must consider come 2023. We are still praying and listening to wise counsel, and will allow God to lead us if it is His own wish; certainly that is why I will want to contest.